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	<title>Comments on: Database Abstraction Layers Must Live!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live</link>
	<description>Ralph Schindler</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2012 03:30:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Building layers on data access (Part 1)</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-66692</link>
		<dc:creator>Building layers on data access (Part 1)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-66692</guid>
		<description>[...] step to abstract data handling is to start using database abstraction, database abstraction must live. We&#8217;re not using code only to support different database vendors, but to ease the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] step to abstract data handling is to start using database abstraction, database abstraction must live. We&#8217;re not using code only to support different database vendors, but to ease the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-134</guid>
		<description>Nice article.

I certainly like having a standard interface.

I like Zend_db and when I can&#039;t do something easily - I use a vanilla SQL query as in the article.

My issue with any abstraction  is that you have to learn another language on top of what you already know; when sometimes it might be just as easy to cobble something together with the basic tools available in the standard library +- modules yourself. Same goes for glorious CMS&#039;s that just spit out a bit of HTML - wouldn&#039;t plain HTML suffice?

I&#039;m staring at a popular php framework right now - and to me it feels like it&#039;s getting in the way of me coding, rather than helping me.

For me it&#039;s a case of how quick/intuitive/useful the tool is to develop with and learn, will it save me time in the long run, and can it be easily added to my project /tool chain with little fuss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article.</p>
<p>I certainly like having a standard interface.</p>
<p>I like Zend_db and when I can&#8217;t do something easily &#8211; I use a vanilla SQL query as in the article.</p>
<p>My issue with any abstraction  is that you have to learn another language on top of what you already know; when sometimes it might be just as easy to cobble something together with the basic tools available in the standard library +- modules yourself. Same goes for glorious CMS&#8217;s that just spit out a bit of HTML &#8211; wouldn&#8217;t plain HTML suffice?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m staring at a popular php framework right now &#8211; and to me it feels like it&#8217;s getting in the way of me coding, rather than helping me.</p>
<p>For me it&#8217;s a case of how quick/intuitive/useful the tool is to develop with and learn, will it save me time in the long run, and can it be easily added to my project /tool chain with little fuss.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-104</guid>
		<description>I think people have somewhat missed the point. Yes for a single bespoke project your db is probably prescribed so the db abstraction layer doesnt buy you much. But as a product developer writing for an abstraction layer (of which SQL is one) allows the customer to choose what platform they want to hold their data on rather then pre-reqing what you developers are most familiar with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people have somewhat missed the point. Yes for a single bespoke project your db is probably prescribed so the db abstraction layer doesnt buy you much. But as a product developer writing for an abstraction layer (of which SQL is one) allows the customer to choose what platform they want to hold their data on rather then pre-reqing what you developers are most familiar with.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel PREDA</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel PREDA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-101</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Jeremy on this one...

PHP programmers must know how SQL even those simple &quot;INSERT INTO...&quot;...
Real database abstraction layers hide a lot of SQL.

What I preach for is &quot;data-access abstraction layer&quot;:

PDO provides a data-access abstraction layer, which means that, regardless of which database you&#039;re using, you use the same functions to issue queries and fetch data. PDO does not provide a database  abstraction; it doesn&#039;t rewrite SQL or emulate missing features. You should use a full-blown abstraction layer if you need that facility.

On database abstraction layer they say in the manual &quot;if you need that facility&quot;...

Have you ever thought if you really-really-really need it ?

On small projects - it doesn&#039;t add value... they&#039;re small... you will finish them in time anyway.
On big projects - it doesn&#039;t add value... an abstraction layer brings overhead...

Have fun !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Jeremy on this one&#8230;</p>
<p>PHP programmers must know how SQL even those simple &#8220;INSERT INTO&#8230;&#8221;&#8230;<br />
Real database abstraction layers hide a lot of SQL.</p>
<p>What I preach for is &#8220;data-access abstraction layer&#8221;:</p>
<p>PDO provides a data-access abstraction layer, which means that, regardless of which database you&#8217;re using, you use the same functions to issue queries and fetch data. PDO does not provide a database  abstraction; it doesn&#8217;t rewrite SQL or emulate missing features. You should use a full-blown abstraction layer if you need that facility.</p>
<p>On database abstraction layer they say in the manual &#8220;if you need that facility&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>Have you ever thought if you really-really-really need it ?</p>
<p>On small projects &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t add value&#8230; they&#8217;re small&#8230; you will finish them in time anyway.<br />
On big projects &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t add value&#8230; an abstraction layer brings overhead&#8230;</p>
<p>Have fun !</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Schindler</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Schindler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-100</guid>
		<description>Steven Tyler,

I totally agree, I have his book on High Performance MySQL.  But when I saw the post making its rounds last week, 4 years to the day, I figured it was time to address it- this time with a spin on best practices, Zend_Db, and patterns in mind.  You should read all the way through, then render your opinion.

This is a post I&#039;ve been meaning to write for a while, but Jeremy&#039;s post gave me an opportunity to provide an alternate argument to the usefulness of Abstraction Layers, as well as give insight into the myriad of way one could use Zend_Db, and the paradigms of programming it fits within.

Many developers tend to acquire and all-or-none mindset, and I am simply trying to convey that its ok to both &quot;drink the ZF kool-aid&quot; as well as use the lower level extension to do work.  Heck, use elements of CakePHP, Symfony, or sprinkle some Django (python), Rails (ruby), or Ant (Java) into a project.

If its a tool that&#039;s been validated, tested, and generally considered a &quot;best-practice&quot; kinda tool, use it- and Be Effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven Tyler,</p>
<p>I totally agree, I have his book on High Performance MySQL.  But when I saw the post making its rounds last week, 4 years to the day, I figured it was time to address it- this time with a spin on best practices, Zend_Db, and patterns in mind.  You should read all the way through, then render your opinion.</p>
<p>This is a post I&#8217;ve been meaning to write for a while, but Jeremy&#8217;s post gave me an opportunity to provide an alternate argument to the usefulness of Abstraction Layers, as well as give insight into the myriad of way one could use Zend_Db, and the paradigms of programming it fits within.</p>
<p>Many developers tend to acquire and all-or-none mindset, and I am simply trying to convey that its ok to both &#8220;drink the ZF kool-aid&#8221; as well as use the lower level extension to do work.  Heck, use elements of CakePHP, Symfony, or sprinkle some Django (python), Rails (ruby), or Ant (Java) into a project.</p>
<p>If its a tool that&#8217;s been validated, tested, and generally considered a &#8220;best-practice&#8221; kinda tool, use it- and Be Effective.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Tyler</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-99</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll forgive me for being brutal, but you kind of lost me at Line One, by criticising a five-year-old Jeremy Zawodny post. Firstly the man knows more about databases than you and me combined, and secondly it&#039;s five years old. I didn&#039;t read any further - I&#039;m sure that your post was lovely though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll forgive me for being brutal, but you kind of lost me at Line One, by criticising a five-year-old Jeremy Zawodny post. Firstly the man knows more about databases than you and me combined, and secondly it&#8217;s five years old. I didn&#8217;t read any further &#8211; I&#8217;m sure that your post was lovely though.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-98</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing a well balanced and honest article in this world of rants for the purpose of generating traffic. Design decisions are rarely black and white. I also like Zend_Db&#039;s API.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing a well balanced and honest article in this world of rants for the purpose of generating traffic. Design decisions are rarely black and white. I also like Zend_Db&#8217;s API.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Byrne</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Byrne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-97</guid>
		<description>I really enjoyed reading this article, it was very informative and the attention to detail was great. The world needs more PHP articles like this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed reading this article, it was very informative and the attention to detail was great. The world needs more PHP articles like this!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wilbur</title>
		<link>http://ralphschindler.com/2009/07/15/database-abstraction-layers-must-live/comment-page-1#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator>wilbur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ralphschindler.com/?p=26#comment-96</guid>
		<description>I have been wondering about this sort of thing for years!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been wondering about this sort of thing for years!</p>
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